Building Stable Referral Streams in Your Practice

© 2024 HMP Global. All Rights Reserved.
Any views and opinions expressed are those of the author(s) and/or participants and do not necessarily reflect the views, policy, or position of Podiatry Today or HMP Global, their employees, and affiliates.

Jennifer Spector, DPM: Welcome back yet again, everybody, to Podiatry Today podcasts, where we bring you the latest in foot and ankle medicine and surgery From leaders in the field. We're so glad that Dr. Jim McDannald is back with us again today as our guest. He's the founder and director of Podiatry Growth, which provides online strategy and services for podiatry clinics. He started this business after being in practice for 10 years, and he also has his own podcast on practice marketing.
 
Today he's with us to discuss the concept of building stable referral streams. Welcome back, Dr. McDannald. We're so glad that you continue to join us today.
 
Jim McDannald, DPM: Thanks, Jennifer. I'm really excited to get into this topic with you.
 
Jennifer Spector, DPM: So obviously having a stable referral stream is a very desirable situation for physicians. Why do you think this is so important?
 
Jim McDannald, DPM: Well, I mean, when you're starting a practice, whether you're starting in your own shingle or you're going to be an associate with someone or a large health care institution, if you're not getting patients in the door, it's going to be painful in a lot of ways. So I think when someone is either just getting into practice or starting at a new practice, there also can be a thing where there's—you might have more time than money. So it's an opportunity to really kind of get to know someone. One of the basics of kind of developing referrals, and we'll kind of get into more specifics on this podcast.
 
But, you know, it's really a lifeblood of a practice that really helps you define, you know, who you want to be as a physician and kind of which direction you want to go because, there's a lot of different opportunities. I think when I was younger, I didn't always see it as that, you know, you get that job and then patients just find your door automatically. But there are ways to really help kind of mold and create the practice. that you want to have through, you know, kind of different techniques to get those referrals in the door.
 
Jennifer Spector, DPM: So say that somebody is a brand new associate right out of residency or they've struck out on their own for the first time. I realize this could even apply to docs who are just pivoting sort of in the focus of their practices. But what are some ways that these clinicians can work towards building their referral streams?
 
Jim McDannald, DPM: Yeah. I kind of see it in two different ways. You know, the first is kind of the they need to step back and understand what they love about podiatry in a future practice, right? You have to have kind of a decent roadmap. It doesn't have to be—you don't have to follow it to the letter, but, for me, example, I was, I was big into sports medicine. I, that's kind of what I wanted to do. So that's kind of like that first step is kind of understanding what do you want to do.
 
And then the second step to me is, is really kind of, do you want, you know, are you that kind of homebody, you just want to have your practice in your small town or in your city, and just kind of that's where you want to be? Or do you want to kind of branch out and kind of be more on the national level, right? And, do you want to be on the board at ACFAS. That's probably a smaller percentage of folks, but knowing, you know, or kind of providing value to your state association.
 
So that's going to really kind of change, you know, how you spend your time. Early on in practice, as far as not only getting, you know, referrals from your local area, but also, you know, do you want to be seen as someone that is that kind of go-to expert on the national or international level?
 
So, you know, the first step, like I said, is kind of knowing what you want to do, and then kind of figuring out, in entrepreneurial, how kind of excited are you to kind of be more than just kind of your local podiatrist?
 
I think one thing is that that I think either one is great ways to practice. But I think sometimes when you're about local podiatrists, sometimes you don't realize that you are kind of a local business in a way and you really have to kind of kind of understand that things have changed. It's not the yellow pages anymore. You have to have that online visibility. So treating yourself as that kind of local expert and kind of being visible to patients there is really, really important. But then on the other hand, if you want to, you know, be on the board of the ACFAS or APMA or the American Women Podiatry Association, you know, those types of groups, you really need to kind of like find ways to network with more folks than just who's in your local area.
 
So those are the kind of areas that I would say that people need to focus on. Obviously, providing excellent patient care is kind of an, you know, I don't, that has to be there as well. But if you want to kind of figure out what where you want to go through your career and get a stable referral system, it starts with a deliberate path.
 
Jennifer Spector, DPM: So once a clinician has successfully done so and has really gone down these different pathways, once they have those successful connections, how do you go about maintaining them? How do you go about making sure they're sustainable over time?
 
Jim McDannald, DPM: Yeah, I would start with the more local podiatrists. And I would say that that is interesting early on, or even if you're doing a pivot, getting out and seeing people in the real world, right? Who are the physical therapists in your area? Who are the orthopods? Who are the other podiatrists? Because podiatry training has changed somewhat over the last 30 or 40 years.
 
I mean, you might be a specialist, right? But the person down the road has been doing orthotics for 30 years. And there can be a real synergy in the type of care you can provide and the value you can provide to the patients of that podiatrist. And there can be a kind of a symbiotic collaboration, either across specialties or across podiatry. So I think it's really, really important to get out to be visible.
 
So for example, if you're in a sports medicine like Iowa's, maybe it's working in a medical tent in a marathon, it's going to, you know, it's not only just the healthcare providers, but who else kind of is in front of your ideal patient.
 
So, you know, maybe it's the local running shoe store where you offered a give half an hour an hour marathon injuries clinic in a way. So there's a lot of different ways when you're kind of in that local, I would say it's important to be visible and to go out and do things in the real world, along with the more digital side of things. You know, obviously that's my specialty now, but you know, how do you gain that online visibility and trust?
 
And it really starts with, you know, a website and a Google business profile that basically tells a patient exactly what you're looking for. do. You know, the website is obviously hugely important to have authentic genuine images of you treating your ideal patient. No stock images, no footprints on the sand. I mean, if you're just getting started, I'm not gonna like make fun of you for having those, but you really need to show who you are and the value you provide. And if you can, even if you're a larger practice, if you're in a group practice, you know, finding ways to incorporate some personalization into how you help people. You need to have more personalization than just your bio.
 
It's great to have a bio and it's great to say where you went to school and residency, but patients wanna know how you can help them. So whatever digital channel, whether it be your website, your Google business profile, your social media, it has to be this kind of authentic you showing patient how you can help them. And by kind of making it seen as an investment and not as something that is a cost, it's a way to kind of kind of gain additional patients and get those, you know, online referrals in a way. And there's definitely ones that are the more cost effective than others and every practice’s in a different place as far as what's an appropriate budget but it is one of those things where the younger generation that's how they find people search online or they search on ChatGPT or AI now, and they want to find that local expert for a problem they have, and that's how you can do it.
 
On the other side of things, if you want to be more nationally known, I think it's important to network with people, and that can be by going to conferences and getting up on stage, writing papers, going on to LinkedIn. I think LinkedIn is probably the premier online way to network with other podiatrists or other different industries that kind of serve podiatry or work with podiatry.
 
Jennifer Spector, DPM: So I'd be really encouraged that as well. I think it's a great way to, sometimes you'll see different things like case studies or ways to kind of collaborate with other people giving a lot of the information I share on this podcast and even on the previous AI one that we did, is by having kind of a network of people that are kind of on those things. You know, I definitely do digital marketing but I'm not necessarily an AI expert but I'm learning a lot by talking to some of my peers and colleagues whether it be orthopedist, someone in the aesthetic area, or, just podiatrist in general. It's a really helpful thing to, to be out there and to be seen by, and I think it can be helpful also to get mentoring.
 
You know, if you have someone that you trust and that you think has kind of had a similar career path that you would like to kind of, uh, not necessarily copy paste, but it can be helpful way to get advice along the course of that path.
 
Jennifer Spector, DPM: So in our last podcast episode, you dove into a myriad of tech tools that are out there and that are evolving potentially in the medical space. Could you elaborate on how tech might impact the creation and maintenance of, of revenue streams like this and referral streams?
 
Jim McDannald, DPM: No, definitely. I think, uh, you know, there can be different segments of this, you know, as kind of EMRs incorporate some of these different types of AI technology within them, it's gonna be much easier to kind of segment patients or segments, different types of diagnoses that you see in your practice, right? So number one is gonna help you make better decisions, understand, how are you treating patients? What are the results of that treatment?
 
And potentially also on the financial side of things, what are the revenue drivers in your practice? Obviously, people are in private practice. It is a business and you need to make sure that you're paying your staff and that you're building the type of practice you want.
 
So these AI models can crunch numbers, can provide really crunch numbers, it's not there quite yet, but I can see over time, it's gonna help automate a lot of the kind of reporting or the financial reporting, or like I said, really help you provide better patient care by showing you the outcomes of what did you do? You had a patient with plantar fasciitis and for the last two years you had this treatment protocol or, maybe it's incorporating different type of modality and how what's the pain level after week one versus what you used to do. It kind of helps you make more data driven decisions in a way that's going to really benefit the patient in the long term and the kind of overall, your kind of referral network will benefit as well because, you know, people are saying that you're providing great care and you're, and it's not just kind of a gut instinct anymore. You have some data to back that up.
 
Jennifer Spector, DPM: With the push towards a more value based care paradigm to data like that is going to be invaluable.
 
Jim McDannald, DPM: No, absolutely. And I see it in things like I'm seeing different kinds of measurement devices and basically kind of masked iPhones to measure like for wound care, for example, measuring a wound and basically not only the size of the wound, the depth of the wound, like what they kind of there's radio luminescence and other things that can be used to see where the bacterial load that helps provide better antibiotic treatment. So, you know, a lot of that stuff is kind of driven by these data, you know, by data and by AI working in concert together to provide better, more efficient and economical outcomes for people. So yeah, I think as this becomes more sophisticated over the next upcoming years, you're gonna see more and more of this just kind of seep into EMRs. And also, it also makes it easier to create content for your practice, right? Sometimes they have these kind of dolly or these image-generating machines. Not everybody wants to pay a couple thousand dollars for a photo shoot.
 
You know, it's just when you're starting off. So if there's a way for you to take an image of yourself, an image of your ideal patient and one of these chat GPT or one of these AI image creators, there's going to be, it's going to be kind of crazy. You know, you won't be able to tell what is real and what's not real these days, which, can be a good and a bad thing. These kind of things are going to seep into the normal tools we're using now There'd obviously be some new tools created. But it's gonna really I think take over a lot of the tools that we have whether be email marketing, the way that your digital ads or the way you chat with patients, you know on your website a lot of these things are gonna be making a really drastic improvements and drastic change over the next. It's going to feel kind of gradual, but when you look back three years, five years, 10 years, it's going to be like it's a different world.
 
Jennifer Spector, DPM: So on that note, are there any final thoughts that you'd like to leave the listeners with today?
 
Jim McDannald, DPM: Yeah, I would say, especially if you're getting started or making a pivot or joining a practice, I would say it's been a little bit of time looking into whether it be networking on LinkedIn or finding some people in the profession that are kind of moving in the direction that you want to. And, you know, just because you graduated residency or you've been in practice for 10 years, the good, the good or the bad thing about, you know, knowledge that is always changing, it's always improving, but it also gives you a better chance to improve the lives of your patient.
 
So, you know, I would just say, you know, don't put your head down in the sand, no matter if you want to be that small town podiatrist treating care of your, your friends. and family, or if you're in the big city and you have aspirations to be APMA president or ACFAS president, stay in the loop as far as what's going on so you can provide, you know, excellent care and a cost effective and an efficient way for your patients. And they'll really thank you. But it does take that kind of stay on top of what's going on.
 
And I think everyone listening to the podcast today, they're already listening here. So they're kind of that percentage of people that want to know what's going on next and want to improve the way they take care of the patient. So I'm, you know, I'm excited for the future and always happy to help people understand these topics better so they can, people can either reach out to me or get in touch with Jennifer and she'll, she'll funnel some questions my way.
 
Jennifer Spector, DPM: Absolutely. And as always, we're so grateful that you're sharing your expertise with us. We'd like to thank the audience as well for being a part of the conversation today. Be sure to check out all of the episodes we've done with Dr. McDannald over the years with Podiatry Today podcasts and all of our other podcast episodes on your favorite podcast platforms including SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and on podiatrytoday.com.